Left2Right Comments

I don't know, Don. It was a consensual relationship, not even sex (i.e., intercourse), and Arnold didn't buy the woman off (AMI did, possibly without his knowledge).

The groping thing bothered me more. This did only get a snicker out of me.

Would've it affected the vote? Maybe.

Should've it? Not in my opinion.
 

I agree with Bret, but I think it's worth exploring the rationale.

This is a consensual relationship between 2 adults, neither judged (legally) incompetent. It is the business only of each of them. Whether it is the business of anyone else depends on whatever agreements, tacit or explicit, each has made with others. For instance, Shriver and Ahnold may have a marriage in which either or both is allowed outside dalliances, or one in which sexual monogamy is required. In the former case, they would have agreed that this is not Shriver's business, in the latter that it is.

The "groping thing" was a legal matter - somewhere between sexual harassment and sexual assault - and was therefore of public interest.

If AS had made 'family values' an important part of his campaign, then the hypocrisy would have made this relevant, certainly fair game, and a matter of public interest.
 

I'm still trying to figure out what's "something like" foreplay and massage. In AS's defense he never pretended to be an angel so at least hypocrisy is out. Don H's post does seem a bit prudish give his stance on "progressive" conceptions of marriage and civil unions,I mean we switch from live and let live to outercourse as scandal concerning a guy who never let steroids shrink his sex life. Have we forgotten in our evaluation of Arnold the remarkable Gray Davis who came close to creating a new low in American politics. I worry a little less about the Calif. voters when I recall Gray"I never saw a contract I wouldn't break or a woman I wouldn't abuse"Davis.
 

This wouldn't seem so partisan if you had used the same negativity and article for Bill Clinton. But, then I guess that's what one can expect from Don H. Intellectual dishonesty.
 

Don Herzog ought to be careful about muckraking while sitting on his ivory perch in the state of Michigan, especially when he seems to rely on establishment Beltway sources like The Washington Post for his information.

But if we're going to rehash the California recall election and how the public allegedly got "screwed" (as if the information would have changed the outcome), why not go after the LA Times, which allegedly sat on stories about Gray Davis (talk about a politician screwing the public)? But doubtless that information wouldn't have contributed to a "vigorous public debate."
 

i would have to agree with the prior anonymous poster that this post would seem less self-righteous if these same standards were also applied to bill clinton. substitute any republican's name for don herzog and quote that person as stating that such private decisions made bill clinton an "untrustworthy, selfish scoundrel [who] has a lack of integrity, and maybe we should expect those unsavory traits to show up not just in his marriage but in politics, too." my sense is that defenders of bill clinton would be howling.

i apologize for painting "liberals" with such a broad stroke, and i am sure that there are individuals in this country who identify with "the left" (as in, left2right) who condemned bill clinton's tendencies; but if there were such condemnations, they certainly were much quieter than the condemnations of conservatives who made these same points.
 

I hadn't heard the term before. It's a reasonably good descriptor of most of my sex life.
Was arnold and maria's marriage a public ceremony; do we know what their vows were? Were those vows broken by his conduct? Maybe we are dealing with a lying politician, which is not too unusual.
Will this hurt her chances to run for president? I've seen maria as potentially electable, and it avoids the foreign born problem with arnold running.
I don't know much about her. But I've been reading a lot about the three previous generations of kennedys. Except for bobby, they are uniformly philanderers and liars. No that's overbroad - for example I don't know if sargent shriver was a philanderer. But there are certain common patterns of the women standing by their playboy men. One can expect a kennedy to be a winner, a liar, rich, a writer, concerned about image, sexually active, and involved in a lot of crashes. Arnold fits in there pretty well. He's the first honorary kennedy to hold power as a republican, but that's a minor variation on a well-established theme. -arbitrary aardvark
 

aw autumn is in the air, another semester at Sappho State commences, and Donnie Hedgehog is kvetching about some trivial shinizzle; yes Ahhnuld is a playboy but worse is that he is playboy and dummkopf: any semi-bright schmuck watching the debate where he nearly accosted Arianna H. (another cali fraud really), patronized Bustamente and the green guy must have realized they were getting some austrian farmboy for Gov.--
Gov. Davis however flawed deserved better.